over 40 years, this is a new one for me....

[sassyotto]

got a call from a past customer. She spilled a little shampoo on the carpeted steps. Easy Peezy Im thinking - just rinse it out, right? So I get there and its purple. OK still should be able to rinse it out. Nothing, absolutely no change. Tried all my spotters, Nothing.

So now Im thinking that maybe its hair DYE, not shampoo so I ask the husband and he said yes, its shampoo. So I asked if I could see the bottle. Heres what it is.

Now Im no chemist and I know you guys are really smart. What ingredient makes this so difficult to get out and what can I use to remove it from the carpet??

 

[sassyotto]

PS. I cant even pronounce half of whats in it. why would anyone put it in their hair????

 

[Living The Dream]

I cheated and asked AI? Have you tried Stain Magic and heat? I'm assuming synthetic carpet.

Short version: it’s the dyes + cationic “conditioners” + low-pH salts that make Brass Off stick like a real textile dye.

What on the label is causing trouble (and why):

Blue/Violet dyes (listed near the end as cosmetic colorants, e.g., Blue 1 / CI 42090, Violet/Ext. Violet CI 60730, or similar).
These are small, water-soluble acid/direct dyes that bond to nylon’s dye sites the same way Kool-Aid does—so normal detergent/extraction won’t release them.

Cationic conditioners/film formers (look for polyquaternium- polymers and amodimethicone).
They carry a positive charge and lay a film on fibers; anionic (acid) dyes are attracted to that film and get “mordanted,” which locks in the stain and resists rinsing.

Salt + low pH (e.g., sodium chloride and citric acid).
Salt drives dye uptake (“salting-out”), and the low pH activates nylon dye sites, strengthening the ionic bond with those dyes.

Strong wetting surfactants (e.g., sodium laureth sulfate, coco/cocamide betaine/MIPA).
These push the dye deep into the pile before you can blot, making surface cleaning less effective.


Put together, you get a highly substantive blue/violet stain on nylon that usually responds only to two-part peroxide dye removers + controlled heat (or, on wool, a reducing agent), not to standard carpet detergents.

 

[sassyotto]

I cheated and asked AI? Have you tried Stain Magic and heat? I'm assuming synthetic carpet.

Short version: it’s the dyes + cationic “conditioners” + low-pH salts that make Brass Off stick like a real textile dye.

What on the label is causing trouble (and why):

Blue/Violet dyes (listed near the end as cosmetic colorants, e.g., Blue 1 / CI 42090, Violet/Ext. Violet CI 60730, or similar).
These are small, water-soluble acid/direct dyes that bond to nylon’s dye sites the same way Kool-Aid does—so normal detergent/extraction won’t release them.

Cationic conditioners/film formers (look for polyquaternium- polymers and amodimethicone).
They carry a positive charge and lay a film on fibers; anionic (acid) dyes are attracted to that film and get “mordanted,” which locks in the stain and resists rinsing.

Salt + low pH (e.g., sodium chloride and citric acid).
Salt drives dye uptake (“salting-out”), and the low pH activates nylon dye sites, strengthening the ionic bond with those dyes.

Strong wetting surfactants (e.g., sodium laureth sulfate, coco/cocamide betaine/MIPA).
These push the dye deep into the pile before you can blot, making surface cleaning less effective.


Put together, you get a highly substantive blue/violet stain on nylon that usually responds only to two-part peroxide dye removers + controlled heat (or, on wool, a reducing agent), not to standard carpet detergents.

great explanation, thank you! I did not try 2 part Stain Magic/heat. I use Stain 1 from Pros Choice and generally use for coffee stains. I dont like to use heat so I apply it, cover with wax paper (so it has time to work) and then put an old book or magazines on top to hold the wax paper in place and have them let it sit for 48 hours.

So maybe I should go back and try that?

 

[Jim Pemberton]

great explanation, thank you! I did not try 2 part Stain Magic/heat. I use Stain 1 from Pros Choice and generally use for coffee stains. I dont like to use heat so I apply it, cover with wax paper (so it has time to work) and then put an old book or magazines on top to hold the wax paper in place and have them let it sit for 48 hours.

So maybe I should go back and try that?

Try it, it could work. You are right to give you Stain 1 time, instead heat. If you apply heat, you will mostly likely remove the carpet’s color.

As an alternative, you can try a red dye remover. If you have Red 1, you can sometimes get away with giving it time, then HWE, but on this one, I think you will need heat (heat is helpful with reducers, and less likely to remove the carpet’s dye)

I nearly always prefer oxidizers, but have found that reducers work better on synthetic dyes.

What worries me is all the other chemistry in the product that is designed specifically to cause the dye to set.

I give you one chance in three that you’ll get it out. Just based on my experience, not a judgement of your experience or expertise.

A couple of cautions:

If you use an oxidizer (Stain 1) and it doesn’t work, you need to rinse, rinse, rinse before you try the reducer (Red 1) and heat. Otherwise, when you apply the reducer and heat, even though the reducer SHOULD have counteracted any remaining oxidizer, ANY residual oxidizer can cause catastrophic color loss when heat is applied .....

.....ask me how I know

If you try the reducer first, you have to rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse (you get the picture) before trying the oxidizer.

It is extremely difficult to remove the residual reducer from the carpet, and if you don’t, your oxidizer won’t work as well, if at all.

So:

What is the carpet worth to the customer?

What is the customer worth to you?

How comfortable are you in charging for your time and expertise if your efforts fail?

 

[sassyotto]

Try it, it could work. You are right to give you Stain 1 time, instead heat. If you apply heat, you will mostly likely remove the carpet’s color.

As an alternative, you can try a red dye remover. If you have Red 1, you can sometimes get away with giving it time, then HWE, but on this one, I think you will need heat (heat is helpful with reducers, and less likely to remove the carpet’s dye)

I nearly always prefer oxidizers, but have found that reducers work better on synthetic dyes.

What worries me is all the other chemistry in the product that is designed specifically to cause the dye to set.

I give you one chance in three that you’ll get it out. Just based on my experience, not a judgement of your experience or expertise.

A couple of cautions:

If you use an oxidizer (Stain 1) and it doesn’t work, you need to rinse, rinse, rinse before you try the reducer (Red 1) and heat. Otherwise, when you apply the reducer and heat, even though the reducer SHOULD have counteracted any remaining oxidizer, ANY residual oxidizer can cause catastrophic color loss when heat is applied .....

.....ask me how I know

If you try the reducer first, you have to rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse (you get the picture) before trying the oxidizer.

It is extremely difficult to remove the residual reducer from the carpet, and if you don’t, your oxidizer won’t work as well, if at all.

So:

What is the carpet worth to the customer?

What is the customer worth to you?

How comfortable are you in charging for your time and expertise if your efforts fail?

thank you for the response. Since the steps are white and the spot is small I will try as you say. I will post any results.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Good news on the white!

Do watch out for the Red 1 (0r any of its equivalents) leaving a brown stain afterward; I see that sometimes on white after I've reduced away the actual color (blue, red, etc).

If it does, you can go to the Stain 1

 

[Numero Uno]

got a call from a past customer. She spilled a little shampoo on the carpeted steps. Easy Peezy Im thinking - just rinse it out, right? So I get there and its purple. OK still should be able to rinse it out. Nothing, absolutely no change. Tried all my spotters, Nothing.

So now Im thinking that maybe its hair DYE, not shampoo so I ask the husband and he said yes, its shampoo. So I asked if I could see the bottle. Heres what it is.

Now Im no chemist and I know you guys are really smart. What ingredient makes this so difficult to get out and what can I use to remove it from the carpet??

View attachment 132991View attachment 132992View attachment 132993

What temperature did you rinse it out with .Did you convert to cold and bleed out line before the rinse .OR did you heat set it .A neutralzing dye must use the color opposite to negate itself. In this case an orange .Also initial color of carpet affects it as well.It will assimilate the color present then adapt there of. In the cause of a beige color fiber with that blue you would need half yellow and half orange neutralizing dye.Shaken and blended to off set and return to color.Also the nature of the other chemicals involved are designed to etch in the hair.So as to wear as it fades and ages on the head in uniformity . Think of the hair after application .The outer perimeter and 1/3 inward would be blue. The inner core brown and or black etc(color of natural hair). This product if utilized more then once on a client. Would be very similar at that point to a solution dyed nylon as an example.Even the inner core would be affected. Now if you can find those ingredients in a dye manufactured by them .You can apply as is to return to chemical family and loosen the remaining colors. Uv also could lighten but only after multiple rinse strokes . You want it as gone as much as possible.Cause uv will set as well.But biggest concern here is did you rinse it cold or hot ? Hopefully cold.Then your removal probability increases .Regards !

 

[SamIam]

I cheated and asked AI? Have you tried Stain Magic and heat? I'm assuming synthetic carpet.

Short version: it’s the dyes + cationic “conditioners” + low-pH salts that make Brass Off stick like a real textile dye.

What on the label is causing trouble (and why):

Blue/Violet dyes (listed near the end as cosmetic colorants, e.g., Blue 1 / CI 42090, Violet/Ext. Violet CI 60730, or similar).
These are small, water-soluble acid/direct dyes that bond to nylon’s dye sites the same way Kool-Aid does—so normal detergent/extraction won’t release them.

Cationic conditioners/film formers (look for polyquaternium- polymers and amodimethicone).
They carry a positive charge and lay a film on fibers; anionic (acid) dyes are attracted to that film and get “mordanted,” which locks in the stain and resists rinsing.

Salt + low pH (e.g., sodium chloride and citric acid).
Salt drives dye uptake (“salting-out”), and the low pH activates nylon dye sites, strengthening the ionic bond with those dyes.

Strong wetting surfactants (e.g., sodium laureth sulfate, coco/cocamide betaine/MIPA).
These push the dye deep into the pile before you can blot, making surface cleaning less effective.


Put together, you get a highly substantive blue/violet stain on nylon that usually responds only to two-part peroxide dye removers + controlled heat (or, on wool, a reducing agent), not to standard carpet detergents.

Patch adams or bleach and dye

 

[SamIam]

Black light and 40 volume

 

[sassyotto]

What temperature did you rinse it out with .Did you convert to cold and bleed out line before the rinse .OR did you heat set it .A neutralzing dye must use the color opposite to negate itself. In this case an orange .Also initial color of carpet affects it as well.It will assimilate the color present then adapt there of. In the cause of a beige color fiber with that blue you would need half yellow and half orange neutralizing dye.Shaken and blended to off set and return to color.Also the nature of the other chemicals involved are designed to etch in the hair.So as to wear as it fades and ages on the head in uniformity . Think of the hair after application .The outer perimeter and 1/3 inward would be blue. The inner core brown and or black etc(color of natural hair). This product if utilized more then once on a client. Would be very similar at that point to a solution dyed nylon as an example.Even the inner core would be affected. Now if you can find those ingredients in a dye manufactured by them .You can apply as is to return to chemical family and loosen the remaining colors. Uv also could lighten but only after multiple rinse strokes . You want it as gone as much as possible.Cause uv will set as well.But biggest concern here is did you rinse it cold or hot ? Hopefully cold.Then your removal probability increases .Regards !

thank you for the detailed explanation! I always rinse cold (and with plain water)

 

[Numero Uno]

Sassy my pleasure...I pop in now and the to help when it might be needed .But on stains some times you win some times you lose...Had a friend tell me her 80 dollar shorts were ruined by a broken thc cartridge spilling leaking oil. I told her toss them to me .Stain gone for that issue high % hand sanitizer did the trick. But as I was told by Haig Takorian first day at Park Cleaners .In 1975,as I strolled the shop looking around asking an looking at the people working .Haig the master spotter said .What ever ingredients made it will remove it .If you use time ,your head and patience. Applies still to this day. That application for a strong kid dumping Bane waste buckets led me to this point in my career. On a sad note this is Bane's last year in operation.

 

[Matt Middleton]

Sassy my pleasure...I pop in now and the to help when it might be needed .But on stains some times you win some times you lose...Had a friend tell me her 80 dollar shorts were ruined by a broken thc cartridge spilling leaking oil. I told her toss them to me .Stain gone for that issue high % hand sanitizer did the trick. But as I was told by Haig Takorian first day at Park Cleaners .In 1975,as I strolled the shop looking around asking an looking at the people working .Haig the master spotter said .What ever ingredients made it will remove it .If you use time ,your head and patience. Applies still to this day. That application for a strong kid dumping Bane waste buckets led me to this point in my career. On a sad note this is Bane's last year in operation.

Numero Uno. Its always great to read your comments!

 

[Kenny Hayes]

Sassy my pleasure...I pop in now and the to help when it might be needed .But on stains some times you win some times you lose...Had a friend tell me her 80 dollar shorts were ruined by a broken thc cartridge spilling leaking oil. I told her toss them to me .Stain gone for that issue high % hand sanitizer did the trick. But as I was told by Haig Takorian first day at Park Cleaners .In 1975,as I strolled the shop looking around asking an looking at the people working .Haig the master spotter said .What ever ingredients made it will remove it .If you use time ,your head and patience. Applies still to this day. That application for a strong kid dumping Bane waste buckets led me to this point in my career. On a sad note this is Bane's last year in operation.

Because they refused to adjust to the times. Why not have at least a positive displacement pump capable of 600psi and blower to match it. Put that with a Little Giant and they might've had something.

 

[Numero Uno]

Because they refused to adjust to the times. Why not have at least a positive displacement pump capable of 600psi and blower to match it. Put that with a Little Giant and they might've had something.

Because it was the anti theseus to the message.
Had they continued to make modern type electric vehicles with the vehicle as the heat an power source.
We would all be free from fuel an secondary fuels to power heaters .
Etc.
Have you seen the latest Chinese truckmounts.
They are almost there totally independent.
Here the industry is stagnant an has blinders on.
Bane worked with mills to promote the business.
Here associations made manuals an sent out twits.
Who never cleaned to instruct.
How many ideas an units made that were sub standard.
The original Studebaker dry units.
Metal beasts weighing quite alot costing way to much.
The matrix defender vacuum filter that warped.
Hand tools an wands designed for God knows who.
That blue wand made with a shut off valve an no trigger.
Was abysmal. sorry for the rant but since 76.
We should have been in top not in the mediocre middle.
The vortex the aero tek.
Only raised the cost of all other units across the board.
Well if there oaying 70k us.
Then ours should be more.
Where are they all now.
Junkyard.
I re.e.ber the hype for the super chemspec version.
No one could push with out a glide.

Junk...all junk.
Made by greedy twits who screwed the average Joe Cleaner .
Regards sorry for rants.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

Dang, I can't believe I read all that.

 

[jessi]

Any update?

I also ask chatgpt. Mainly i just plug in chemicals, what will break this down etc

 

[bob vawter]

Any update?

I also ask chatgpt. Mainly i just plug in chemicals, what will break this down etc

You forgot the Gene Bates Perkins powered "Big Red" the Bohemth that could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch!

 

[Dwain Ray]

You forgot the Gene Bates Perkins powered "Big Red" the Bohemth that could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch!

Any machine that has a 47 blower on a 10 gallon waste tank is gunna suck! Most of the Big Reds didn't have a traditional waste tank. They had a round tank about the size of 2 - 5 gallon buckets with a clear dome top and continuous pump wastepump system. When ibuilt frankinstien i got my waste tank idea from a big red i matched a 47 blower to a 45 gallon wastetank with a dual float comet wastepump system

 

[bob vawter]

Any machine that has a 47 blower on a 10 gallon waste tank is gunna suck! Most of the Big Reds didn't have a traditional waste tank. They had a round tank about the size of 2 - 5 gallon buckets with a clear dome top and continuous pump wastepump system. When ibuilt frankinstien i got my waste tank idea from a big red i matched a 47 blower to a 45 gallon wastetank with a dual float comet wastepump system

Those upper +lower waste tank floats
Would last a day or so.....i bought an extra dome cuz I knew it'd break....lasted 20 years! The Jabsco didn't last long even after turning it

I WAS THE KING OF THE WORLD

 

[Dwain Ray]

Those upper +lower waste tank floats
Would last a day or so.....i bought an extra dome cuz I knew it'd break....lasted 20 years! The Jabsco didn't last long even after turning it

I WAS THE KING OF THE WORLD

Mine last a long time. For the lower switch i use a standard tethered sump pump float switch and the upper is a prochem switch. The float switches operate 2-50 amp relays. when wastewater is above the lower switch a red led light comes on on my panel. The wastepump manual/automatic switch on my panel is single pole on/off/momentary when the red lights on/ wastewater above lower switch but below upper . I push panel switch momentary and pump will pump and automatically stop as if the tank was full to upper float switch

 

[bob vawter]

Mine last a long time. For the lower switch i use a standard tethered sump pump float switch and the upper is a prochem switch. The float switches operate 2-50 amp relays. when wastewater is above the lower switch a red led light comes on on my panel. The wastepump manual/automatic switch on my panel is single pole on/off/momentary when the red lights on/ wastewater above lower switch but below upper . I push panel switch momentary and pump will pump and automatically stop as if the tank was full to upper float switch

Dwain.....yor mechanical ability impresses me immensely......

I gotta ask.....did you ever meet Shawn Forsythe?

 

[Dwain Ray]

Dwain.....yor mechanical ability impresses me immensely......

I gotta ask.....did you ever meet Shawn Forsythe?

Ya, i think so i knew a Shawn at steamgeni never knew his last name. Also knew Felix from there also still in touch with Jerry Holman he was head of sales he used to come up here with Byron Townsend (my sg distributor) to salmon fish

 

[sassyotto]

You forgot the Gene Bates Perkins powered "Big Red" the Bohemth that could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch!

Funny, but true! I remember many years ago there was a cleaner doing some work a block from where I lived so I stopped in to say hi. He showed me his Big Red and then proceeded into the house, put his wand in the middle of the living room carpet and lifted it about 12-16" and said "look at that suction!"

 

[Dwain Ray]

My machine is like that now. I have so much vacuum that with 75' of 2" vacuum hose connected and laying on the ground my guage reads 14" and the relief on the tank is set at 16. From 14 to 16 is less than a second or two

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Funny, but true! I remember many years ago there was a cleaner doing some work a block from where I lived so I stopped in to say hi. He showed me his Big Red and then proceeded into the house, put his wand in the middle of the living room carpet and lifted it about 12-16" and said "look at that suction!"

I find the present and future more interesting than the past...

BUT (A friend of mine says everything before "but" is BS)

I miss all of those characters from the 70s who were the inventors of the first truck mounts.

And of all of those characters, Gene Bates was the craziest!

I wonder if my mother knew the type of people my father let me be around in those days

 

[bob vawter]

I find the present and future more interesting than the past...

BUT (A friend of mine says everything before "but" is BS)

I miss all of those characters from the 70s who were the inventors of the first truck mounts.

And of all of those characters, Gene Bates was the craziest!

I wonder if my mother knew the type of people my father let me be around in those days

My wife and I drove out to California and trailered one of Genes 1st machines back to Detroit. So Gene decided to take us out to eat.
While on the x-way this black guy was passing us... minding his own business.....
All of a sudden Gene reaches under his seat and pulled this hand cannon out and started waving it all over.i thought we were all die for sure!

 

[Jim Pemberton]

My wife and I drove out to California and trailered one of Genes 1st machines back to Detroit. So Gene decided to take us out to eat.
While on the x-way this black guy was passing us... minding his own business.....
All of a sudden Gene reaches under his seat and pulled this hand cannon out and started waving it all over.i thought we were all die for sure!

I heard a similar story from someone else.

He was a unique man....

One of the founders of a well known truck mount manufacturer threatened one of my customers in the men's room at a trade show for buying a machine from me instead of him. Another guy vandalized all of his competitors machines at a trade show exhibit. Yet another punched a competitive distributor in the face at a show.

Then there was that nude swimming party....

Oh those were the days.